Demonic Kings raid team

Demonic Kings raid team

Postby Handsanitizr » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:59 am

So over the last few weeks a lot of us have been raiding with demonic kings to kill time on our off days like Wednesday and Sunday and Monday. The reason we have been raiding with them is their lack of raiders. Long story short, a lot of guild drama caused them to lose a tank and a healer a few weeks ago, then these last couple of weeks their guild leader has been out sick, and his friend quit showing to raids as well... So they continuously have to fill spots with our alts and our fillers as it is. One thing to note is that their guild leader still may come back, however from what I understand he is not really someone who Is driving their raid team to do better all of the time necessarily...

I had suggested to two members of their raid team who seem to be co-leaders of the team for the most part that they might be able to apply to SDM as a group and maybe put together a second team with a lot of the people we have right now who don't always get to raid things they want to. From what I understand citrus already raids with them, I know there are weeks that hana and ilfurion don't always get to raid with the main team, and this could be a good way to continue to ensure their participation in raids.

I am NOT suggesting that we make the "good" team and the "bad" team that these guilds always turn the raid teams into. I am suggesting that rather than have them be the team we raid with outside of the guild, to have them be the team we raid with inside of the guild.

Now their healer and their tank that they lost were either removed or left demonic kings due to the guild drama... which would be irrelevant to them in SDM. I did suggest this to them as an idea to get back to raiding with those two people so that they could continue raiding with less issue, and continue using fillers who don't get to raid with the main team.

I think the main raid team of SDM fully understand the necessity of consistency in any progression group. Since TOT we have become significantly more consistent in filling raids on time with capable raiders as well as becoming more punctual about our raiding. I think it would be a big help to them if they could bring their raid team and possible fillers into our guild even if it were temporarily on a trial basis to see how it went and if everyone enjoys the experience of being in SDM. This opens room for our current progression team to add possibly sunday to our raid schedule again as a possible raid clearing day or progression day depending on their raid schedule, and also opens up a lot of options for us as far as maybe even getting back to larger raid content. I know that 25 man offers more loot than 10 man does, and I think that if we decided to make sunday or Monday a clear day that we could most definitely try to clear with a much larger group effort in 25 man for more opportunities at loot.

Another point that I would like to note relates to the new expansion due to be released soon™ is that mythic raids are supposedly 20 man only raids. which means we will need 20 people to raid them. I think this would be a large step in the right direction for getting those 20 raiders.

This is an idea that I came up with on the fly about an hour ago that I wanted to throw in the air and see what the raiders and even what the casual players in SDM think of this idea. any positive or negative feedback is greatly appreciated.

After talking to Cym all he really wants is a consistently raiding team that progresses
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Re: Demonic Kings raid team

Postby Psychomantis » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:43 pm

This is an interesting proposition, bringing on board additional talent and building the SDM raid structure back up. Xremi also mentioned that Best in Slot had similar interests.

This could open many options to consider such as building a second 10 man team to finish out Mists or considering the 25 man options. Of course in Warlords the expectation would be making a single team of 20+ for Mystic, and with the Normal and heroic modes all flexing we have room for building that team up.

We won't do this fast though, let's collect more information about the situations all parties are in, the expectations, the names/classes/roles, ect... and take a look at it all then ask questions or make decisions.

edit: I also have to be clear that SDM does not participate in mergers, we have brought in group applicants in the past which is what this would be and either integrated them into the SDM system or let them continue to run as they have while offering them full guild support.
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Re: Demonic Kings raid team

Postby Hanassal » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:13 pm

Some thoughts, in no particular order.

Overall, I'm in favor of more raiders, and a 2nd team around. i know we've lost some raiders/potential raiders over the past year or so, because the chance to raid regularly wasn't there. I'm not sure what kept a stable 2nd team from forming and progressing early in MoP; real life events held my attention then. Expanding our numbers to prepare for a shift back to a 20man team sounds like a good idea. But as Psycho says, think about what is likely to happen, not just what we may want to happen.

DK is more than twice our size, from a quick check. My impression is that 6-8 players would be changing guilds. I doubt that this would be seen as a 'merger'. It's more likely to be seen as 'SDM stealing their top raiders'. I'm not sure how many people on Eitrigg keep track enough now to even notice, for that matter. Would have been different back when there were a lot of guilds competing (or intending to) for top spot. I don't know; has the horde raiding community dwindled to the point where we have to concentrate them all in one spot to keep going?

One of the factors that lead to the collapse of the 3 teams we had running in Cata was the increasing number of players who wouldn't raid with "him/her" (for varying definitions of him/her). Putting together flex or a later 20man team will be impossible if half the raiders won't tolerate one or more other raiders in the same team with them. It becomes a binning problem with no solution. (We saw this in Cata, with the various attempts to go back to 25 man, without much success.) My concern there would be that whatever the drama that lead to 2 people leaving DK earlier was, it should not carry over. Seen enough of that over the years, and some people just don't let go of it, no matter how trivial. We've probably still got enough traces of it left in SDM atm to make assembling larger teams tricky.

Regardless of intention, I suspect any multi-team guild will end up with ranked teams. It's highly unlikely that 2 teams will advance at the same rate. The first time the team that's ahead needs a replacement, and grabs the 'best' person from the other team, stratification starts, and it just keeps going from there. That's not necessarily a reason not to have multiple teams; just a caution against expectations. We were stable for a long time in Cata with 2.5 teams, often keeping 3 running per week with cross-fills and alts. Mutual discussions of strategy, occasional personnel swaps to help get past tough spots were very useful.

Along those lines, think ahead about what the current raid team wants/expects to do. Pushing for 3 full nights a week may well end up squeezing out those people who have more limited time. It may start as 'we'll fill in for the 3rd night', but I suspect it would rapidly move toward trying to raid all 3 nights with the same group.

Scheduling matters, also. If both teams run the same nights, it's harder to cross-fill. What happens if only 19 people show up on a Tuesday? The 'main' team grabs who they want to fill, and runs? Go to flex? I know several people have alts and could fill in as needed, if the runs are not at the same time, without saving mains to lockouts. We did a lot of that in Cata (caution about burnout and expecting someone to raid full time with both).

As has been the case for several years now, a lot of the effort to make this work will land on Psycho, and I don't want him driven away by the stress. I value the overall stability of this guild, even with the many changes over the years I've been here.

Noticing the comment about Best in Slot: differences in attitude and strategy (or lack thereof). I haven't run much with either of these other guilds, but that one run with BiS was... awkward? Think ahead to how it would work out. Anything can be made to work, if people are willing, but some may be more stressful than others.
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